End Social Anxiety: Powerful CBT Tools for Everyone

End Social Anxiety: Powerful CBT Tools for Everyone | Dr. David Burns & Dr. Jill Levitt, Feeling Good Institute

 

Social anxiety affects millions of people—often those who appear confident and successful on the outside. Beneath the surface, they struggle with fear of embarrassment, judgment, and rejection.

In this free training, world-renowned psychiatrist Dr. David Burns and Dr. Jill Levitt, Level 5 Advanced TEAM-CBT Therapist & Trainer, share the powerful CBT and exposure tools that help clients break free from shame, avoidance, and self-doubt.

Through real therapy demonstrations and practical exercises, you’ll learn how to use interpersonal exposure, self-disclosure, and shame-attacking techniques to help clients (and yourself) feel more confident, authentic, and connected.

 

What You’ll Learn:

• How to identify the hidden signs and disguises of social anxiety

• Exposure and self-disclosure techniques that dismantle avoidance

• How to use “Feared Fantasy,” “Smile & Hello,” and “Rejection Practice” exercises effectively

• How to coach clients through breakthroughs—without overwhelming them

• Strategies to overcome clinical hesitations about exposure therapy

 

Ideal for therapists, counselors, and anyone ready to understand and overcome social anxiety with proven, evidence-based tools that truly work.

 

SUMMARY:

 

IN THIS VIDEO:

 

Jill Levitt: Welcome everyone to our webinar today and social anxiety powerful CBT tools for everyone. I am super excited to be presenting today alongside my dear friend and colleague and mentor Dr David Burns. And I will say this is a topic that is a favorite for both of us. We love the idea that it's a topic that can be incredibly helpful to patients and to therapists but also so helpful to people in the general public and therapists and general public struggle so much with social anxiety because we are all human. So we are excited to bring the kind of human aspect to our training to all of you. Today we decided that we are actually going to start the webinar getting to know you just a little bit and then we are going to tell you about ourselves and introduce our topic. So I am going to run our first poll which is asking you to tell us a little bit about yourself. So are you a member of the general public so you are not a therapist you are joining because you are interested in learning a little bit for yourself or your family members? Are you a therapist who's currently enrolled in our FastTrack course or are you a therapist that's not yet enrolled in a FastTrack course with us that helps us to know a little bit about our audience before we start presenting? I am watching the numbers roll in. So I am going to end the poll and share the results in just a moment. All right, it looks like the results are slowing down. So, if you didn't get a chance to take the poll that's okay. But I am going to go ahead and end it and share the results. So David we can see that 74% of our audience is a therapist who's not currently enrolled in the FastTrack course. We've got 4% of the audience therapist who's in the FastTrack course and 22% is the general public. So about 80% therapists, about 20% general public. Okay. So let me do a little introducing. I will start with David, who maybe needs no introduction, but David as you all know is a world-renowned psychiatrist, a CBT legend, one of the fathers of cognitive behavioral therapy, a best-selling author and the creator of the new Feeling Great app, which David's going to share with everyone today. And as I said before David's been a mentor and a friend of mine for a long time. And it's always such a thrill to be able to to teach with David. And what we are sharing with you today are some methods that David has created and mastered and I think make a really big difference in the lives of our patients and us as therapists too.

 

And let me tell you a little bit about who we are at Feeling Good Institute. So our mission at Feeling Good Institute is to elevate the practice of therapy so that patients can recover faster and more fully and we train and certify therapists in TEAM-CBT which is the powerful framework that was created by David Burns and we help therapists move through a structured five level certification path kind of a roadmap to becoming a TEAM-CBT therapist and Feeling Good Institute was originally founded by Maor Katz, Angela Krumm and myself. We all trained with David at Stamford. Back then in 2010 through 2013, back then and before then even the only way that you could really learn TEAM-CBT was to study directly with David often for many years or to go to one of David's intensives around the world. And we started Feeling Good Institute with really one big dream which was to bring David's tools techniques and training style and make it more accessible to more therapists without compromising the depth or the quality. And everything that we do today still reflects our original intention which is to help therapists get better so that patients can too. I also wanted to tell you guys that at Feeling Good Institute, we don't just teach techniques that we learned from David. We really try to replicate David's training style, which is built on one foundational idea that you only get better through practice and feedback. And we actually kind of double down on that philosophy. We really lean into it using the deliberate practice model. And it might surprise you to hear this but you can see on this slide that experience alone does not make therapists better. We don't just get better by having more and more years or more and more sessions under our belt. We know this is true based on psychotherapy research studies. If anything at all we all get a little bit less effective over time. But what we know does work is practicing and getting feedback and practicing again and repeating that cycle. And that's what we emphasize in all of our trainings including the one that we are going to tell you a little bit about at the end of the workshop today. And that is the FastTrack course. So, at the end of the webinar, we will tell you a little bit about this program that we've created that's designed to help therapists level up their skills quickly and effectively. What used to take years and years of training we now offer in a structured and highly effective training that you can complete in just six months. And I suggest that all my traineees take the course to get excellent really quickly. So, we just want to let you know that what we covered today is kind of the tip of the iceberg for you therapists who are joining us and that if you find it helpful, we'd love you to join us in the FastTrack course.

 

So we will share with you at the end of the webinar today all about the feeling great app which therapists and the general public can make good use of and also about trainings we have that can help you to become a better therapist. Also many therapists in attendance will want to know how they will get their CE credit. So just quickly I will let you know that you can access the CE survey which will be in the chat box today just before 1:00, just before the end of the webinar. You need to be present for the full two hours. And if you are here at the end of the webinar you will see the link to do the survey in the chat box. As soon as you do that we will know that you've completed and you will get your certificate within a week. So you won't be getting it today or tomorrow but you will be getting it within a week of today's presentation. So now let's move on to the topic today. Our learning objectives that we are going to help you to know by the end of today. You will be able to describe the purpose of shame attacking exercises. You will explain how self-disclosure reduces social anxiety and you will be able to describe the survey technique and know how to implement it effectively. So now I will move on and get us started with kind of the content of today. I also want to say excitingly that today is the biggest attendance that we've ever had. We had over 3,000 people register for our webinar today which is an exciting all-time high David. And we've got more than a thousand people who've joined us already live today. So that's awesome. Welcome everybody. So what we will be talking to you about today is methods for social anxiety. But we want you to know that stems from this framework the team framework. TEAM stands for Testing, Empathy, Assessment of Resistance and Methods. This means that with all of our patients we use measures at the beginning and end of every session to help kind of assess our patients, to help check in with our patients, to track progress over time, and also to address any kind of alliance ruptures. At the end of session we also focus on empathy skills. We teach and train therapists in empathy skills and we use these at the beginning and throughout every session with every patient to connect with kind of even the most difficult to connect with patients and to form really close and trusting connections. The A in TEAM stands for Assessment of Resistance. That means that we actually address and reduce resistance before bringing in methods. Many of the methods we will be teaching you today are going to seem pretty powerful and pretty intense and incredibly effective. But before we kind of use methods with patients we always do things to assess motivation, to reduce resistance, to boost motivation. We won't be covering that today but we do cover that in a lot of our trainings. And then finally the M in TEAM stands for Method. And that means cognitive behavioral, interpersonal, and other kinds of methods that we use to bring about really meaningful changes in our patients. So I will run this poll the next two polls so we get to know you all and then I am going to let David do a little bit of talking. I am kind of taking over here, but so we are going to ask you guys and David you are welcome to talk about these polls as well. But we are essentially we are asking you guys here.

 

Oops. Wait, let me run this poll. Sorry

 

Dr. David Burns: I can respond to this one. Should I wait till we see the numbers?

 

Jill Levitt: Sure that would be wonderful. I just launched it. It took me a minute. So, it's launching right now. So the question is, do you struggle with social anxiety? So many therapists in our training groups are so socially anxious actually. So it would be really surprising if we didn't see that many attendees struggle with social anxiety. We can see the numbers rolling in here and I will stop and share the results in just a moment. All right here you go David.

 

Dr. David Burns: Okay not at all anxious. Under 10%. So that means that 90% of us do struggle a little, bit quite a bit or extremely in social situations. And that includes me. I had love treating social anxiety. It's my favorite thing because I had at least four or five kinds of really severe social anxiety personally including incapacitating, horrific public speaking anxiety and performance anxiety. We are going to do smile and hello practice pretty soon and I will do it now. I hello everybody and I am smiling and saying hello to you and I could not have done this three years ago. I have ever since I have been a child I had horrible camera anxiety and fear of smiling and so whatever you have got I can say "Boy I know what that's like and it's going to be such a joy to show you how to overcome that." So, we will have a big social anxiety goodbye party today.

 

Jill Levitt: And then the next poll we wanted to ask people is do you have patients, loved ones, colleagues or friends with social anxiety? So our first question was do you struggle with some social anxiety which guess 90% of us do at least to some degree but this question is do you have patients, colleagues or friends who struggle with social anxiety? I think I know where this is going to go but let's everybody answer and then I will share.

 

Dr. David Burns: Maybe over 50%.

 

Jill Levitt: Right. Okay. I am going to end the poll and share the results. You can see those David.

 

Dr. David Burns: Yeah 96%. Yeah. So that's certainly not rare and something we can all relate to for sure. And the emotional impact of social anxiety. It's more than just being anxious in social situations but it has to do with loneliness and finding a life partner and feeling isolated. Depression goes along with anxiety and social anxiety and feelings of inadequacy. And then maybe the strongest and most incapacitating feeling of all is shame. Social anxiety is almost always accompanied by shame. And so in the treatment we want to reduce shame as well as the social anxiety because you can argue that social anxiety, shyness per se is not a negative at all. It's only the shame that makes it really a bad thing for your personal life for your relationships. And I will turn it back to you but I wanted to just say welcome to Yohan who's our son-in-law and it's the first time anyone from our family, my daughter actually went to a couple of my workshops and worked at them years ago. So, we have that in common to look back on. But I am so excited Yohan when I heard that you were had registered and could attend this thing. It just it means the world to me and I can't thank you enough. But anyway back to you Jill.

 

Jill Levitt: Sure. So, what we are going to be focusing on today and there are so many ways that we can help people with social anxiety we are just taking a small slice and one group one category of methods today and we call those the interpersonal exposure techniques. So interpersonal exposure techniques are designed to test the validity of a distorted thought. So just like any exposure technique, if one is worried that people will judge them, we are going to go out and we are going to actually do exposure exercises that kind of test the validity of thought. Is it true or not? And the other goal of interpersonal exposure techniques like any exposure technique would be to overcome avoidance right? The idea that all the things we are not doing continue to be scary and anxiety producing to us. And when we go out and actually face our fears we overcome anxiety and we overcome avoidance. We discover that we like to say the monster has no teeth. The thing I've been so afraid of and so worried about is just not really true. So those are kind of two things to keep in mind of the purpose of interpersonal exposure techniques. And there are seven of them that we are going to share with you today. We're going to teach you about them. We are going to demonstrate them for you. We have one video we are going to share with you. We have some audience participation. So lots of ways of bringing these seven interpersonal exposure techniques to life.

 

The first one that we want to share with you guys is called smile and hello practice. David already referred to it already and it sounds like pretty simple but actually I think you will probably realize if you have patients who struggle with really extreme and debilitating social anxiety even smiling and saying hi to people making eye contact can feel really frightening and very overwhelming. And so the way that we want our patients to do it is to practice it in the real world. It's not like we are going to just smile and say hello to each other in the office. We like to go out in the real world and practice with our patients. So we like to do a lots of exposure outside of session if we can do that. I should say within the session, outside of the office. And oftentimes we need to model it for our patients. Show them what it looks like to smile and say hello to be, you know, upbeat and cheerful to grab eye contact. We want to encourage our patients to do it. When we go out of the office with our patients once we get their buy in the office once we get out of the office we sometimes need to be a little bit pushy. We need to demonstrate and then say come on now it's your turn. So helping our patients to kind of face their fears and then we also assign it as ongoing homework. A couple of tips we want to offer you guys and then I am going to share a story with you that'll kind of bring this to life and David has a story to share with you too. But one tip is that it's very helpful to go with your patient to observe them doing this. That's because your patients might say "Oh yeah I do that I say hi to people". But actually, they're staring at their feet, they're looking at their phone, they're not smiling in an engaging way. And so when you take your patient out of the office and practice this or if you go practice it on your own because you are working on your own social anxiety, you really need to kind of hold your feet to the fire. You need to put your phone away, you need to look people in the eye, smile, say Hi. We like to require it with every passerby so that way you don't have to like muster up the courage to do it each time you do it. you are just like in the mode. you are going to walk down the street and every person who walks by you are going to smile say hi and keep going, you are gonna

 

Dr. David Burns: Hi Jill.

 

Jill Levitt: David, you are practicing now.

 

Dr. David Burns: Yeah.

 

Jill Levitt: You can say hi to Yohan.

 

Dr. David Burns: Hi Yohan.

 

Jill Levitt: So yes, we did this in our Tuesday group. We have a practice group and here we were in a Zoom where you can see each other and so we went around the office. We went around the screen and you know just smiled and said, "Hi Stacy, how are you?". And then Stacy said, "Hi David, how's it going?". But yes the goal is make sure your patients do it they they do it wholeheartedly that they use a loud voice. You can add gestures. You saw David go, "Hey, how's it going?" Right? Being and be friendly. And I will share with you guys. It's a really it's a simple exercise but I found it to be pretty powerful. And I am going to use an example of a patient that I saw a couple years ago but it's really representative of many patients that I see. And this was a young man who was struggling with really extreme social anxiety. He was taking a leave of absence, a semester off from college and come home and was working on his social anxiety because he had found it was so bad that he was not going to classes. He was afraid to eat in the cafeteria. He was anxious to go to study groups and really had just totally shut down and was extremely depressed as well. And so we did a lot of work in the office first. We did some cognitive therapy stuff and that was definitely helpful. Then it was time to get out of the office and do some work together. We found a busy street near my office, Castro Street in Mountain View where there's lots of shops and restaurants. And we talked about the plan ahead of time. And that particular day we decided we were just going to focus on smile and hello practice. And so I had to model it for him first. He was afraid to do it. Didn't really understand what he was supposed to do. I said "you are just going to walk walk alongside me". And I just went "Hey how's it going? Hi" to each person that we walked by. And I asked him to just make some eye contact and notice what I was doing. People range in their responses. Some people are very friendly. Some people don't even notice. Some people look away. It doesn't matter. We are not looking for a big conversation. We're just doing a simple exercise. And then I turn to him and say "Okay now it's your turn". And we spent the remainder of our session just having him smile say hello to every single person that we passed by. And by the end of the session it didn't feel, nearly as frightening for him and he was getting pretty good at it. And so then just like we said on our earlier slide for homework that week, I asked him every day 15 minutes a day find somewhere that you can smile and say hello to people. And we brainstormed you could do it in the grocery store, you could go to Target, go to Costco. So even if you don't have a town with a big main street, people can go anywhere and just commit to every passer by they need to smile and say hello to. And David, will you share your story with us?

 

Dr. David Burns: Well yes. When the feeling good came out, eventually I got some TV appearances. It was terribly difficult, but somebody after one of them said you know you did great on TV but you didn't smile and you have to learn how to smile for the camera and I kept hearing that from people and I was really peculiar looking when I was little and I got teased a lot and I got enraged and I hated having my camera my picture taken. And up until a few years ago I was just hated my picture taken and if anyone tried to get me to smile I would just get angry. So it was it was a serious issue. So I decided to try smile and hello practice but I wanted to start with something easy. So I walked around downtown Palo Alto. I started just by saying hello to inanimate objects like a telephone pole or a fence or something like that. I got used to that pretty quick and then I moved on to animals. Dogs were especially good. You know say "Oh hi, you know good to see you". And they're so friendly and they will come up and they will lick your face you know, 90-95% of them. You know cats find a cat and hello and you are such a pretty cat and then I moved on to humans. And now I can say hi hello and smile and it's no problem. But it was put a real crimp in my style for the longest time that was the approach that I used.

 

Jill Levitt: Love it. And I also love that all the methods that we are teaching you today are methods that we practice ourselves and we ask our patients to do right in the spirit of we would never ask our patient to do something we weren't willing to do ourself. Do you want me to keep going David, or you want?

Dr. David Burns: Well self-disclosure is another tremendous technique and I have used a lot with my students on hikes and things like that. And the idea is that shyness is never a problem. It's your shame. And that shame as you pointed out Jill cannot exist without secrecy. You have to keep something secret to be ashamed of it. And so you can use self-disclosure to share your feelings of anxiety inadequacy and shame with others. But it's an art form. All of the things we are teaching you are art forms. They must be done skillfully to have a really good effect. And so you can approach strangers and say something like this. Now, this takes courage, takes balls, as the Buddha so often said to do this, but it's tremendously helpful. So you don't want to put the other person on the spot. And so one way to do it is to say you know "Can I speak with you for a moment"? Just walk up to a stranger and say "I want you to know that I have always struggled with shyness ever since I was a kid but I have been hiding it from everybody because so I am so damn ashamed. But today I have just decided to stop hiding it. In fact I am starting to tell everybody. And that's why I am telling you". And this is tremendously powerful and just to give you an example of how powerful it can be. I was got a phone call from a man in New York City. This is when I was still living in Philadelphia. And he said that he was very successful and powerful but had not a happy day in his life and that he had extreme social anxiety. He said he owned one of the companies on the New York Stock Exchange. My god that’s pretty unbelievable to my way of thinking. And he said "The only time I am happy is when I have a board of directors meeting because then I am the chairman of the board I am in control and I am perfectly happy and relaxed. But every other situation, I am terrified of people. Anyone I am just terrified even my wife and children and I am so ashamed I have never told them but I am even anxious being around my wife at home and my two children because I am afraid they will notice how shy and anxious I am. And hell for me is thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays because we have a huge house and all the in-laws come and all the family comes and we are supposed to hang around and talk. And to me it's just like being in hell". Was there any hope for someone as severe as him was what his question was? And we arranged for him to come down to Philadelphia and I said I can schedule you know even two or three hour sessions for you so you it's a long commute and so you get a lot of the therapy time for each time you come. So he agreed to that. We set up a three-hour session and he actually flew down from New York City. I mean I would take the train because it was only like 50 minutes on the trains. Super convenient. But he flew in his private jet plane and brought his bodyguards and handlers with him. And he was met at the airport by a stretch limousine which he drove to our hospital which was at the time the Presbyterian University of Pennsylvania Medical Center which is an in an economically disadvantaged area.

 

When I moved my practice there it was just considered a grade B hospital. So nothing fancy at all. And so he parked the he had them park the stretch limousine right in front of the front door of the hospital and he had these people standing guard outside of the car when he went up for his session with Dr Burns up on the third floor. And so he came in and he told me his situation. He said you know "I will do anything to get over it is but is you know is there any any hope? I had this ever since I have been a child". And I said "Well, here's what I want you to do. I would like you to leave the office walk three blocks to the train". There was one of these not a high-speed type train but it goes underground and then up. It's kind of a, I don't know the people in our neighborhood would be the kind of people who would take this little train. I guess it went to different areas in Philadelphia. And I said 'I want you to get on that train and I want you to sit down next to strangers and I want you to tell each of them just say "I want you to know I am a very wealthy powerful man from New York City and I own one of the companies on the New York Stock Exchange but I have never found happiness because I am so afraid of people and I have been hiding it and because I am so ashamed of my shyness. And so I have decided today my shrink told me I have to start telling people and that's why I am telling you". And I said "I just want you to do that for you know two and a half hours just person after person and then come on back to the office". And he said "Oh no, there's no way I am doing that. I can't possibly do that. That would be horrible". And I said 'You could possibly do that. You can you know I noticed you have two legs and they seem to be working when you walked into the office and I think they would work now. And all you have to do is stand up and go down to the main floor of the hospital and then go out the front door and ask one of the people there "How do you get to the train?". And then I want you to walk three blocks get on the train and ride it and then come back". And he says "No there's no way I am going to do that". And I said "And you can't bring your bodyguards or you know handlers either. You have to do it alone". And he said "I will not do that. I absolutely refuse". And this is so important in all anxiety but especially so social anxiety. And you have to be prepared as a therapist to confront it. What are you going to do when your patient refuses to do the very thing that might change their life? And so I told him, "Okay I understand what you are saying that you can't do what I am asking you to do". "But that's the blue plate special. That's all that's on the menu for today. And so if you don't want to do that you know I won't charge you for today's session and you can just walk on out of the office right now and go back and get in your stretch limousine and fly your your private jet plane back to New York City and we will be done". Well he didn't he didn't like hearing that. He was pretty agitated. Then he finally said "If that's what I have to do okay I am going to do it but I know this is a terrible idea". And then he came back to the my office to you know two and a half hours later. When he walked in he had tears in his eyes and I sat down and I said what what are you crying about? And he says "Dr Burns I just had the best two and a half hours of my life, it was terrifying to me at first but I got on the train and the people did not look very fancy. They had on, you know, kind of pretty average clothes, pretty average looking and I had all my fancy clothes on”. And I sat down to a woman and told her that and she says "Well God bless you, you are doing great". And she told me all about her children and you know asked about me and she said, we just love you". "And I couldn't believe it. And then I went and I told another one I got the same the message and I talked to five or six people. I can't believe the outpouring in love. I thought people would judge me and put me down and laugh at me and they were so supportive. I can't thank you enough. And to tell you the truth Dr Burns I think you cured me". And so you know we that was the end of his session and he went back to New York and phoned me that all his social anxiety had completely disappeared and he didn't need any more sessions and he was very grateful. But that's self-disclosure. And you know the power in it can be just tremendous. And all the techniques we are showing you today have tremendous potential power. But they have to be done skillfully. And sometimes it takes a little nudging or a lot of nudging from the therapist in order to save the patient. Because they're all everyone's going to want to wimp out at the last minute. I know because I've had to confront you know I've had 17 fears and phobias that I had to confront. So I know what it's like. I have fought confronting my own fears. But if you are willing to do it the simplest things can sometimes have the most profound life changing, life transforming effect.

 

Jill Levitt: And the self-disclosure technique is extremely versatile, Right? So we can share all sorts of things with people. And quite often the things that we are most uncomfortable about and worried about are the things that bring about the most closeness. So even little things I had in our training groups that just when a therapist speaks up in a group and says "I am a little slow to learn concepts things take me a while to learn and I feel kind of embarrassed about it". It just brings about so much openness and warmth and intimacy. And so we encourage you to really try and use the survey technique with your patients and also use it in your own life and that way you can see how it works and how powerful it can be. And the other thing is David we always tell people that you want to practice have your patient practice their self-disclosure with you in session so that you might be able to help them think about how they're saying it right? Are they saying it in a way that's appealing to other people in a way that's vulnerable versus maybe I am so depressed that you know making other people feel worried about them or something? So just some thoughts about bells and whistles on self-disclosure.

 

Self-disclosure actually leads so beautifully to our next method which is called the survey technique because quite often in practice we actually use both self-disclosure and the survey technique kind of in combination with each other right? So, with the survey technique you are asking people questions in order to test the validity of one of your negative thoughts or in order to actually collect data on one of your negative thoughts. So for example if you are ashamed of your public speaking anxiety you can share your public speaking anxiety meaning you can do some self-disclosure and then you can ask "Have you ever had public speaking anxiety or shyness?" Or "Do you know anyone who struggles with public speaking anxiety or shyness?" That's kind of part of a survey technique you could do or part one. And then another type of survey technique might be sharing something that's vulnerable using self-disclosure and then asking, "Do you judge me because of this?" So you might say you know, "I struggle with public speaking anxiety and I am wondering now that you know that about me. Do you judge me?” So I can tell my example. Is there anything else you wanted to say about survey technique David or?

 

Dr. David Burns: I think you are doing great Jill.

 

Jill Levitt: Okay. So I will kind of build on the story I shared with you further. The patient who I did smile and hello practice with on this kind of busy street. We worked some more on you know a range of different social anxiety and interpersonal exposure exercises. We actually walked around and had him ask for directions and had him ask questions at restaurants. Did a couple things like that. Then we decided that we were ready to kind of up the ante and do something really challenging which was going to be sort of self-disclosure and the survey technique. So he actually brought a clipboard so he looked kind of official doing a survey. And we stopped people on the street and the first survey that he conducted kind of like on the previous slide was probably the easier of the two which was to introduce himself to people. He basically would stop someone and say "I have a very quick 10-second survey for you. I struggle with social anxiety and I am just trying to collect data today. Do you struggle with social anxiety or do you know anyone who struggles with social anxiety? I am just trying to figure out if this is like a common affliction". And that one was you know felt a little less vulnerable to him and people would stop. They would answer and pretty much every single person as you saw in our audience today either said, "Oh yeah I am a little nervous in social situations or of course I know people. I am an engineer in Silicon Valley. Everyone has social anxiety". People were very actually supportive and answered the survey. There were some people who said "Oh no I don't struggle with social anxiety" and then just kept walking. Right so it's not like every person is going to be warm and friendly. But the next survey we decided to do you know that went well and he was like "Okay I understand. This is definitely not me I am not suffering alone with it". But we decided that we wanted to make it a bit more vulnerable. And so we had him stop people and basically say " I am a college student and I am really struggling a lot with social anxiety and I worry a lot about people judging me. And so today I am kind of confronting my fears sharing my anxiety and asking people. Do you judge me knowing that I am anxious in social situations?” And this actually elicited a lot of kindness from people saying, "No, absolutely not. And wow you are doing such a good job facing your fear". And people were really supportive. And then the most surprising response we got was from someone who said, "Wow, you know I can't believe like you are doing this and you have social anxiety". He was like "I have social anxiety and I would never do this". And so my patient then said "Oh well actually this is my therapist and she's you know supporting me in doing this". And then the person that he was talking to said "Oh wow. Could I do you think I could get your number because I need to do this? You know this sounds terrifying to me, but this is like exactly what I need to be doing". And then the two of them started like a really kind of warm and caring conversation. So it was very very powerful for my patient to do both the self-disclosure and to do the survey technique. So we decided that we would like to call on someone from the audience to share something vulnerable with us to do some self-disclosure and then to conduct a survey today. I think Mike is going to unmute someone who reached out and said they'd be willing to volunteer. So, Mike can you help us with that?

 

Mike: Yes, she should be just rejoining the webinar shortly. I suggest log out and log back in.

 

Jill Levitt: Perfect. Hi Sue. Oh, we cannot hear you actually. Will you unmute yourself?

 

Sue: Hi everybody. Good morning.

 

Jill Levitt: Hi Sue. How are you?

 

Sue: I am a little nervous, but I am okay.

 

Dr. David Burns: Hi Sue.

 

Sue: Hi David.

 

Dr. David Burns: Thank you for volunteering.

 

Sue: You are welcome. So shall I?

 

Jill Levitt: Yeah. You want to do a little? You were going to start out with a little self-disclosure right and then maybe conduct a survey today?

 

Sue: Sure. Yeah. Well I am a little embarrassed about this but I worry that when I forget things like words you know previous details about who I have met with even what movie I saw last night or last weekend that I am slipping into early cognitive decline. And that's really scary to me especially because several of my close friends recently in who are in their 80s have been diagnosed with dementia. And I wonder if anybody else can relate to this fear. I am worried kind of that I am alone in it in feeling this way. And I am also worried that you are going to judge me for it.

 

Dr. David Burns: Well can I respond to your survey myself?

 

Sue: Sure.

 

Dr. David Burns: Yeah. Well I am getting more and more forgetful every day. But I can remember your name Sue so that's a big plus. But what happened yesterday? My short-term memory is just going down. But I am kind of a here and now guy. And so, I still love doing what I do and I am still really loving life and working with Jill and teaching. But I have the same issue. So ,all I can say is I love you and feel much closer to you for your having shared that.

 

Sue: Thank you David. I really appreciate that.

 

Jill Levitt: I love that. And Sue, I will just to highlight for the audience too like this is a really good one. Because Sue is not saying her survey is not "Do you think I have early onset Alzheimer's". Her survey is to say "I am sometimes forgetful and I feel really self-conscious about it right? "Kind of do you judge me for that and also I worry that I have cognitive decline. Does anyone else have that same kind of worry because I feel like I am alone in it"? So we decided that we would open the survey to the audience. And so we would love it audience members if you would message Mike your answer to Sue's survey. And Sue just to put you on the spot again why don't you say your survey question one more time?

 

Sue: Sure. It's you know in terms of forgetting things like words or what movie I saw last weekend or who I met with can anybody else relate to the fear of that? I am slipping into early cognitive decline or dementia. And I am also worried that you may judge me for this

 

Dr. David Burns: Or maybe people are worried that people would judge them for some other you know cognitive slipping and lack of perfection.

 

Mike: They've been just pouring in already. Even before you ask for audience participation there's a bunch. I will read a number of them for you Sue. I can relate a thousand maybe is it 10,000% and I am 33. I feel the same way and I am only 38 years old. "Hi Sue, I can definitely relate. My fear around that is thinking others will think I am losing it and then I am not as valuable as current or as current in skills". I can relate with Sue especially after having a stroke. I just keep practicing me memory exercise to get better. I feel this kind of fear. I have been there. It's more common than you think. you are definitely not alone. I can relate 36 years old. Absolutely. I relate now in my 60s. They're pouring in so fast I can't actually get to them all. But wonderful. I can copy and paste these for you for later.

 

Sue: Thank you.

 

Jill Levitt: Oh that'll be amazing Mike. Mike is so good about doing that for us. So let's ask you Sue. How does it feel hearing people's responses to your survey?

 

Sue: That feels overwhelmingly good. It's just so nice to know that I am not alone. You know what? I guess I knew that other people forget things too. But this worry that I am slipping into a disease just really kind of has gotten my attention. So it's so nice to hear that everybody who has responded says that they too have had these worries.

 

Dr. David Burns: Can I share with you my worst memory gap ever?

 

Sue: Yes please.

 

Dr. David Burns: Sometimes I have nightmares where I will think I am in an airport trying to get home and I can't remember how to get home and you know it's like and I can't find my wallet and it's just terrifying. I had those a lot. But Can I give you something that's very kind of shameful and embarrassing?

 

Sue: Sure.

 

Dr. David Burns: I was talking to a patient and about our son Erik, and this was a couple years back. And the patient said "Is that his first name or his middle name?". And I said "Oh it's his middle name that's spelled with a K cuz you know I am Scandinavian by Swedish by background ERIK". And then the patient said "Well what's his first name?". And I says "You know I can't remember". And I got so ashamed and panicked over it. And so I worked on it for two days trying to figure out what his first name was. And I could not for the life of me figure it out. I know this sounds just horrible beyond words. And so finally I asked my wife. I said "Melanie what's Erik's first name?". And she started laughing. And she said "You don't remember what his first name is?". I said "No I've been trying to figure it out for two days and I just can't figure out what his first name is". And she said "Well have you considered the name David"?

 

Jill Levitt: So that's what his name is. I never knew that because I know him by Erik, but his real name David.

 

Dr. David Burns: David Erik Burns.

 

Jill Levitt: Well that's why he goes by him.

 

Dr. David Burns: I am so proud of him and I am so embarrassed to confess that. But I think we've all got the these flaws and if we you know share them with dignity and not with shame I think it can bring us all so much closer together. Does not have to be a memory problem. It can be any kind of flaw.

 

Sue: Thank you. Thank you so much.

 

Jill Levitt: Thank you so much Sue. Yeah. Thank you for volunteering. That was awesome. And I also want to make sure because I feel like every no good deed goes unpunished that there could be audience members who think are we making fun of memory deficits and that is for sure not the case. Essentially what we are saying is like you can find ways to embrace all flaws, any flaws right? And also that the more that we can share them and be open about them and not feel shame about them kind of the happier and more content we will be.

 

Dr. David Burns: And also of course this. A lot of you are therapists and if you want to use these techniques with patients we have a rule that you have to use them yourself first. And if you are not a therapist you know we are also hopeful that you will use these techniques. But it takes courage to use them. But that courage could be a life changing event to do what you just did Sue and set the example for us.

 

Jill Levitt: But thank you Sue. Thanks so much for your courage and for sharing with all of us.

 

Sue: Thanks

 

Mike: Sue. I just did a cut and paste and there is 12 pages.

 

Dr. David Burns: And then for homework, do we would we give Sue homework to start sharing this with a lot of people? Jill?

 

Jill Levitt: Oh yeah, that would be your homework Sue to think about who would be some good people that you could share vulnerably with.

 

Sue: That sounds good. I will do that.

 

Jill Levitt: Okay.

 

Dr. David Burns: And then send us Jill and David some feedback.

 

Jill Levitt: Yeah. You can give us a homework summary. Give yourself a week to.

 

Dr. David Burns: We are gonna make you accountable.

 

Sue: Deal. Yeah it's a deal.

 

Jill Levitt: You can do some self-disclosure and some survey technique and then send us your homework summary.

 

Sue: we will do that.

 

Jill Levitt: Thank you, and Mike you will help us. Okay. David, you want to talk about this one?

 

Dr. David Burns: Well I will start it and you can do it in the middle and then I will tell my story. But there's two you know underneath the negative thoughts. We are not so much into distorted negative thoughts today although they are a massively important part of our work including with shyness. But underneath those distorted thoughts like you know "I am no good." "I am defective." "I shouldn't be so shy." "Why am I so screwed up" all that stuff. There are these self-defeating beliefs. And two of them that I learned about that I thought were really cool are the spotlight fallacy and the brushfire fallacy. And the spotlight fallacy is that all shy people have this is that when you are in a social situation you feel like you are under a spotlight dancing on the stage and having to impress people by saying something incredibly interesting about yourself, but you realize and think gosh I can't think of anything interesting to say to this person. So, you start racing. Your mind starts racing and you are trying to think what am I going to say to this person so I don't bore them so I don't put them to sleep. Meanwhile they're talking to you say a stranger at a social gathering or a party or something, and you are so preoccupied figuring out what you are going to try to say next that you don't even notice what they're saying. And so when they stop you respond with whatever little speech you decided to give or something about yourself that you know damn well they won't really care about and they feel like you are not listening. So they get frustrated and they say "Oh I've got to talk to so and so on the other side of the room". And they're off. And then you say "Oh just what I thought I got rejected". And that and that's how it works. That's called the spotlight fallacy. And Jill will tell you in a minute and then my story will reinforce why this is a fallacy. Because people like you not because you are interesting and can impress them but because you are interested and then can impress them with themselves, but more on that in a few minutes. The brush fire fallacy is the other half of these two self-defeating beliefs. And that's the idea that all human beings are clones of each other. So all human beings think the same way. So if one person disapproves of me, the word's going to spread fast like brush fire and it's extremely dangerous. So that person will say "Boy I talked to that guy Burns at the party and he was really a dud. I mean he was just talking about himself. He didn't seem to be listening". And then "Oh well that person will tell three others about Burns". And then each of them will tell three others and it will spread exponentially. So by tomorrow you know I will be the laughingstock of the San Francisco Bay Area. And that's called the brushfire fallacy. And that's what makes disapproval so threatening because you think everyone's going to react in exactly the same way.

 

Jill Levitt: And both of these things as you can imagine you know are traps right? So they're fallacies their their self-defeating beliefs right? Their belief systems that people have about social situations that make them think all the world's a stage and therefore I have to perform and if I mess up everyone will know. And we know these things are not true. And so the goal of the talk show host technique is to kind of push against those or disprove those fallacies to work against them. So instead of trying to be all interested and impressive the goal is instead to be interested. To be like a good talk show host who basically is just fascinated with their guests right? Talk show hosts are not talking about themselves and seeming interesting. They're just really good at bringing out aspects of the person that they're talking to. So when we do the talk show host technique the goal is to have your patient talk to strangers and keep the attention on the stranger. So ask questions ask follow-up questions give compliments just be really interested in the person that you are talking to. Sort of you know agree with their ideas. "Oh that does sound really cool.", "Oh, I can see how you could say that.", "Tell me more about that.", "I've always wanted to learn about this or that". I also think that you know when you start sort of just paying attention to the other person and take the pressure off yourself that in and of itself can feel pretty relaxing right? My challenge is just to learn about the other person. That's kind of it. And then of course the idea here is that your warmth and interest in the other person will always be more than sufficient right? Because ultimately most people just want to feel good about themselves. And so if you are talking to them and you are interested and you are sort of making them feel good about themselves they're probably going to feel good and think "This is someone that I really want to hang out with you know more often right?". And then I Yes I know David you have a story here I think but the goal is to you can practice this with your patient in the office. That's very powerful actually. You can take turns practicing being you know the person who's the talk show host and answering and then role reversing and things like that. So getting demonstrating for your patient how you can be interested in anything and then allowing them to practice doing it. You also then want to give them homework like you saw us do for Sue. So a homework assignment for them to practice with at least one stranger per day. And again honestly I can do this with someone in the grocery store. I just noticed something in their cart and I can ask them. "Oh I see that you have soy milk in your cart". "And actually I've never bought soy milk but I am wanting to try something that's non-dairy. Like do you like it and why do you like it"? "Oh tell me." "Oh I also not" just starting to engage and ask questions and seem interested. And then of course if you can go out of the office with your patient you can take turns using the talk show host technique with strangers and you can give each other grades. And these are things you know sometimes we fall flat sometimes we don't do a great job sometimes we need to practice another round. And so they're kind of a strategy can use to have fun and keep getting better at together. David has a beautiful story here. I would love to hear it.

 

Dr. David Burns: Yeah. When I went to Amherst College I was a philosophy major philosophy of science. But my senior year and I planned to go on to philosophy graduate school and but my senior year I read a book by Ludwig Wittgenstein who many now consider the greatest therapist or the greatest philosopher of all time. I couldn't understand the book. It's there It was rumored that it contained the solution to all the problems of philosophy but that only seven people in the world could understand it. And I decided to write my dissertation on it or senior honors thesis or whatever it was but I didn't understand it. I was reading it for six months and I couldn't figure out what the hell he was talking about. And then it hit me like lightning. One day I was walking across this the Amherst campus and I finally saw what he was trying to say which was so simple and obvious. And at that moment I understood the solution to all the problems of philosophy that had ever interested me. So, I got excited and I went to my supervisor and said "I don't think I am going to go to philosophy graduate school. I think I will go to psychology instead because Wittgenstein wanted his students to give up philosophy and do something practical. And so that's what I want to do. I think clinical psychology would be good because then I could help people". And my supervisor says "No you have to go to medical school not psychology graduate school". And I said "That's ridiculous. Why would I want to do that? I am not even a premedical student. The only thing I never wanted to be was a doctor. And I haven't had any biology class since seventh grade. You know how can I get into medical school without premedical being a premedical student"? And he says "Don't worry." He says "You can probably talk your way in into anything. just apply to medical school". I said "Well why?" He said well because only medical doctors can prescribe medications and in the future medications are going to be so important in psychiatry and psychology. So I reluctantly applied to a bunch of you know medical schools and I think I might have had good recommendations because I was a good philosophy students and I got interviews at quite a few of them. When I went to the Stanford the for my that was my first interview. It was in the basement of the there was a museum Eva Rudan garden and all these you know great treasures. Down in the basement is the anatomy and area and I was going to be interviewed by the chairman of the department of anatomy. I said "Oh my god what if he asked me about you know my research and chemistry and all my science background and everything." You know he's I am like a laughing stock. I didn't know what my MCAP scores were but when I took that test I didn't even recognize the words much less know how to guess at the answers. And so when he came out to greet me for my interview I said you know "It's kind of dark down here and a little bit creepy. Is this where they keep the dead bodies that the medical students you know cut up their first year and dissect"? And he says "Oh yes but it's actually exciting down here because my office is right down the hall." And I said "Oh well that's cool. Could I not my office my lab my laboratory where I do research?" And I said "Oh my god would there be any chance I could see your laboratory and you could tell me about some of your research?" He got all excited and he showed me his laboratory. I looked at a machine I had no idea what it was but I read the name of it on the metal plaque that it was some kind of a you know inverse photon radiographic blah blah blah analysis machine. And I said "I see you've got one of these. Do you use this in your research?" And he says "Oh yes we just got that machine yesterday and it's really exciting." And I said "Well tell me tell me about your your research. I'd love to learn about what you are doing." And he started talking and I just kept asking questions. So I didn't want him to ask me any questions. And he got more and more excited. And then I said "Could do can medical students here you know do this kind of research?" And he said "Oh absolutely." And blah blah blah.

 

And then after a while he looked at his watch and he says "Oh you know I am sorry. This was supposed to be a 15 minute interview max and we've been talking for almost two and a half hours. I lost track of time and I've got an important meeting over in the quad of the medical school here. We couldn't walk in that direction together because you that's probably where you parked your car." And so we started walking. We were going up the steps out of this basement area into a big grassy area that's about like four blocks to the medical school. And he says "You know by the way I forgot to ask you who you are." And I said "Oh I am David Burns from Amherst College." And he said 'Well David Burns from Amherst College I want you to know that you are the kind of young man we need at the Stanford Medical School. And I couldn't believe what he was saying. And I said "Well I am so flattered to hear you say that but sadly I am pretty sure I won't be able to go to medical school here". And he got indignant. He says "What do you mean you are not going to be able to go to medical school here? Do you think Harvard's going to make you a better offer that's nonsense? We can up any offer they might make you." And I said well no it's not that. But you see my dad's a minister and we don't have much money and he believes were very conservative that borrowing money is immoral. And I've heard it would cost over $100,000 to go to Stanford Medical School. And so there's no way you know that would be possible. And then he said that's nonsense. I am the chairman of the admissions committee and I want you to know you are the number one choice for the upcoming class and there's no way that you are not coming to Stanford. We're going to give you a full scholarship for tuition room and board living expenses everything, you are not going to pay one penny to go to the Stanford medical school. And I am going right now to the meeting of the admissions committee and I am going to tell them that and you are going to get a letter tomorrow morning in the mail of the acceptance letter and the confirmation of everything I just said." And I said "Well that's an offer I can't refuse." But it was just expressing an interest in him and not trying to impress him with myself because I couldn't have. I didn't ever do any biology experiments or do any work in the lab. I didn't have any research. I could talk philosophy but that has nothing to do with medicine. And yet caring about him and being interested in him changed the whole trajectory of my life.

 

Jill Levitt: I am so speechless. Such a beautiful story. As many times as I have heard this story every time it's so touching so beautiful and so true. So many people are so caught up worrying about impressing other people and worrying about their flaws right? If we can just focus on kind of what's beautiful in people around us we will be a lot better off. So now we are going to move on to perhaps a goofier sort of we will get more and more goofy as the presentation goes on but this one is really a powerful method that's called rejection practice. And here as many of us know I am sure we can all relate to this but also we see this in our patients that you know a fear of rejection whether it's a dating rejection or a job rejection or asking someone to help you and them rejecting you. But that a fear of rejection can be really paralyzing for so many people and can stop you from doing things that you really need and want to do in your life. And so the goal of rejection practice is just to become kind of immune to the impact of rejection. To get used to it to the degree that it just doesn't bother you anymore. And so what we have our patients do in the case of worrying about being rejected by someone in like a dating context is the goal is to ask people out and collect rejection. In other words it isn't go ask people out. It's if you are worried about getting rejected by a potential date you need to collect rejections right? It needs to become kind of like a bulletproof vest. So you are going to go out this week and you are going to ask as many people out as you can and collect as many rejections as you can. The more the better. And there's kind of two ways of doing this. You can either directly just ask people out with the goal of collecting rejections or you can share with people sort of in a self-disclosure kind of way that you are working on overcoming your fear of rejection and then just ask them to reject you. So either way you are going to collect as many rejections as you can. And we are going to do an example of this. But also David and you and I both have lots of stories of this kind of working well and also backfiring with patients. Do you want to tell a quick story or you want me to tell a quick story here?

 

Dr. David Burns: Oh, you want me to talk about Cai?

 

Jill Levitt: No no sorry, we will get to that. I guess let me just say a word or two and then we can do our practice with Stacy. What I was going to say is that you know we've had a lot of people patients but also actually even therapists in the Tuesday group work on this. And sometimes what we like to say is that you only get credit if you actually get rejected. And so what we've had in mind which is very funny is I remember a member of the Tuesday group who was a you know good-looking guy but super anxious socially. We asked him to do rejection practice and then to report back to the group and tell us how the rejection practice went. He was working out at a gym and so he asked this woman at the gym out on a.

 

Dr. David Burns: Yeah. I will finish. I will finish. Can I finish the story?

 

Jill Levitt: Sure. Sure. Yeah.

 

Dr. David Burns: This was a fellow I was helping out. He was you know extremely anxious and shy. And so you know I said "You've got to do this rejection practice." And he kept resisting and resisting. And finally he was in the gym climbing a wall. And he noticed a really attractive young lady climbing just a few feet away. And he said "I would really appreciate it if you'd reject me because I am trying to overcome my fear of rejection." And she said "I am sorry. I can't do that. But what I could do if you are interested is to give you my phone number." So that's what you meant by it backfiring.

 

Jill Levitt: That was such. We've had lots of experiences with patients too where certainly patients who have collected plenty of rejections and just gotten used to it and it worked beautifully. And then patients who've tried to collect rejections who've gotten acceptances and gone on dates as a result of it. And then we like to tell them well you don't get credit unless you actually get rejected. The goal is to collect as many rejections because of course it feels great when someone says "I'd love to go out with you". But what we want you to do is be able to feel pretty neutral when people say "I reject you". So we are going to show you how it works right? We have another volunteer that Mike is going to help us unmute. I see Stacy coming on screen. And Stacy can you unmute yourself?

 

Stacy: Yes. Hello.

 

Jill Levitt: Hi Stacy. So will you tell us kind of just a little bit about what what's makes you anxious? What kind of a rejection is making you anxious and then we can kind of show you how it works? We can reject you if you allow us to.

 

Stacy: Yes. Well in full self-disclosure right this is very anxiety producing but. I am here and I am wanting to ask a favor from the two of you whom I admire and respect and am so happy that I get to work alongside in the Tuesday group and Jill with you at FGI. And so I wanted to ask I mean if either one of you might write a positive review for me. I am trying to you know continue to build my private practice and a review on social media or you know on my Psychology Today profile would really boost things for me. So I would love to ask I mean if either one of you would do that for me.

 

Dr. David Burns: Well I can answer that right off. I don't do these endorsements and I reject you.

 

Jill Levitt: Go ahead. You can respond.

 

Stacy: No, that please reject me first and then I actually had a that was my plan for today and I actually had another request too. So reject first and.

 

Jill Levitt: Okay. So I will reject you as well. So no Stacy I won't write a letter for you on social media. I don't feel comfortable doing that.

 

Stacy: Well, thank you. I mean I understand and I appreciate your honesty. And so actually I had something else happened this morning. I thought this would be a really good request. I actually played pickle ball this morning and now my back really hurts. And David I know that you have suffered with back problems in the past and I wonder if you might give me a back massage to help me with my pain.

 

Dr. David Burns: No my wife is watching.

 

Jill Levitt: That was a funny one Stacy. No I will not massage your back either.

 

Stacy: It was an acceptable. Thank you both very much.

 

Jill Levitt: Okay. And so just also to make one more. Well actually we can ask you Stacy how does it feel and then I just wanted to make a couple other comments of how this could go or we could even practice a little more role reversal. But it how's it feeling for you Stacy?

 

Stacy: Yeah even knowing that I am planning to get rejected it does bring up some anxiety but also it's okay right? I survived it. And I think it makes it easier to ask each time. Practice that.

 

Jill Levitt: And then also we can practice by saying like Stacy I will do this with you. If I were to just say yeah Stacy I am going to ask you to go out to lunch with me and I just want you to reject me right? I am just need to practice being rejected. So, Stacy will you go out to lunch with me?

 

Stacy: No. I don't want to go out to lunch with you. That idea sounds terrible to me. And no I reject you.

 

Jill Levitt: And then I am going to say "Thank you for the rejection. I totally appreciate it. This is super helpful. I got to collect like maybe 10 more of these today".

 

Dr. David Burns: Stacy I have a request for you. I am working on this statistics article on the a new way to measure the placebo effect. And it's mainly statistics. It's quite a long article but I need a general public type person to read it and to edit it for me to make sure it's really readable and appealing. It would only be a few hours of work. Would you know you seem like a smart person and I'd really like you to read and edit it for me. Would you be willing to do that?

 

Stacy: You know well, I appreciate that but no. I don't think I have the time to be able to do that. And No.

 

Dr. David Burns: Are you rejecting me?

 

Stacy: I am rejecting you.

 

Dr. David Burns: Thank you.

 

Jill Levitt: All right. Well and that we also kind of morphed it a little bit into no practice which is also a method that we use that we won't be talking about specifically today right David but it was sort of a combo of some rejection practice and no practice. I would also say that yeah this is a we kind of demonstrated the non-romantic asking out and I suspect a lot of people will be like oh you know but the stakes are so much higher with the asking someone out romantically. But I can tell you know yes that's true and this is super effective in that regard. My patient that I told you guys about earlier again went back to the same location and literally had him asking people out on the street. Similar to what David shared earlier with the climber like he had lots of people who said no I am not going to give you my number but he had one person who gave him his number. So again really built up a ton of kind of confidence is not the right word but just nonchalant being able to collect a ton of rejections and just be like yep now I know it's not that. All right. Should we say thank you to Stacy and move on?

 

Dr. David Burns: Thank you Stacy. Appreciate it.

 

Jill Levitt: Thank you Stacy. Thanks Mike. And you want to share this story, David?

 

Dr. David Burns: Yes. We have had a tremendous young man, you know medical doctor in our Tuesday group. When he started with us he was living in Texas and started attending virtually and he had extreme shyness and social anxiety. So one of the techniques he decided to use because he wanted to you know get his love life moving forward was rejection practice. So, he was the one who put the twist on it to tell people he was trying to overcome his fear of rejection and then asking them to reject him. And he was describing that in our Tuesday group. Where we break into small groups and he was in one of the small groups and Chan Mary who's also in the Tuesday group who's now doing I think a certified psychiatric nurse practitioner was in his small group. And she was also struggling with severe social anxiety. When she heard him describe what he was doing these rejection practice exercises she was very impressed with him and got very attracted to him. So, she confronted her social anxiety fear after that group and sent him an email and said "I was so impressed with what you were talking about in the Tuesday group." "Spring break is coming up and I would like to invite you for a first date because I am interested in you and if you are interested I am going to Hawaii for spring break and we could meet for a date in Hawaii". And Cai got all excited and accepted it and then wrote her back a couple days later and said he'd gotten extremely anxious and scared and had to back out. Which he did. And then another day he emailed her again and said "Wait I've changed my mind again. I will meet you in Hawaii". And so they met in Hawaii and had their first date and fell in love. They were recently married here in the Bay Area. He moved to the Bay Area and they got married. They had a beautiful Cambodian wedding and they are now living happily ever after. But it all started with rejection practice and a little bit of courage. So we love you Cai and Chan Mary and we are so incredibly proud of you.

 

Jill Levitt: It's a beautiful story and totally true. We watched the whole thing unfold from beginning to attending their wedding recently.

 

Dr. David Burns: And wait I have one last. I twist on that story but I think we have got other stories here so we better push on to stay on our.

 

Jill Levitt: They will have to come to another webinar to hear all your awesome stories, David. Do you want to talk about this?

 

Dr. David Burns: Okay. Shame attacking exercises as far as I know were developed by the late Dr Albert Ellis, who was the kind of the grandfather of cognitive therapy from New York. And he talked about how thoughts create our feelings and should statements. He was an expert in. But one of his ideas was that underneath all social anxiety is the fear of making a fool of yourself in public. And so he created what is called a shame attacking exercise where you have your shy patients do something bizarre in public and make a fool of themselves on purpose so as to discover that the world does not come to an end. And I first heard about this technique when I admired Albert Ellis for his honesty and integrity which all the gurus actually did not have but he had it. And so I did a workshop for his group in New York as a gift to him. It was a half-day workshop and then in the evening a number of his students took me out to dinner. We went to this Chinese restaurant. It was a buffet restaurant where you have to stand in line to get your food but they said it was the best Chinese restaurant in New York. So I was all excited. And there was a long waiting line winding through the restaurant the tables where the people were seated. So we were talking shop and I said I've heard something about this shame attacking exercise. "I treat so many socially anxious patients and I think I am going to start using it when I go back to Philadelphia". And they said "Well that’s great but one of the rules it's an ethical rule, you are not allowed to do a shame attacking exercise. Ask your patient to do it unless you've done one yourself". And I said “Oh yeah that makes sense." And they said "And so Dr Burns you could do one right now here in this restaurant." Then I began to feel real creepy all of a sudden. My god what have I gotten into? I wanted to back out. It's that anxiety you know when you are going to confront one of your fears. And I said "Well what would I have to do exactly?" They said "Well a good one for you Dr Burns would be to go up to a table where people are eating and ask them if you can taste their food". And I said "Oh no no . That would be socially inappropriate. I am a psychiatrist. I am wearing a suit and tie and it would just be too crazy to do that." And they say "See Dr Burns you are wimping out and resisting exactly the same way your patients are going to do but we are going to have to insist that you do this shame attacking exercise right now". I felt like I was it was death you know incarnate or something like that. And they were all staring at me. So I said "Well who would I ask?" He said "Well go to that table over there. It's a round table with six people eating all these dishes."

 

So I walked over there and I was very panicky. And I walked up to the table and all the people sudden they looked up. They were staring at me. "Why are you here standing at our table"? Then I looked back at the group in line and they were staring at me like "Are you going to do it or are you going to wimp out"? So I said lamely and you know stammeringly "I've heard that this is one of the best Chinese restaurants in New York. Is the food as good as what they say"? And the people said "Oh yeah it's great". And they didn't offer me any food to taste or anything. And so I looked back at the people and they were still staring at me. And I looked at the people at the table and they were still staring at me. And it was like jumping off the high diving board into the swimming pool for the first time. If you are afraid of heights it's terrifying. You've just got to jump. So I said "I've just got to jump." So I said "I know this is going to sound weird but do you suppose I could taste that dish right there?" And then they said "Oh sure. We've got more than we can eat". And they took a fork and put a bunch of food on it and handed it to me and I ate it and I said "Wow that is fantastic." And then they said "Oh well you've got to taste this other dishes even better." And then they gave me another fork full of food. And then the people from the from the Ellis's Institute in New York all rushed over the table and said "Oh can we taste some too?" So all of a sudden there were you know five six people seated and about five of us and they were feeding everybody tastes of all the food and everyone started snickering and laughing and no one could figure out what was going on. But it was very fun and funny. And then we thanked them for letting us taste their food and went back in line. And I thought to myself "My god David you just made a total ass of yourself in public for everyone to see but you are still alive and actually people enjoyed it and they will have something to talk about tonight." they will say "Wow these weird people came up and asked to taste our food and we let them taste our food and it was really one of the funnest things ever." And I said "Maybe David you've been taking yourself too seriously." So I went back to Philadelphia the next day on the train and started doing a lot of personal shame attacking exercises. And then I began using them with my patients. Now there's a lot of rules about them. It's like anything. It's a high skill set.

 

Jill Levitt: Yeah. Let's do that first.

 

Dr. David Burns: And one thing you have to consider the patient. I go out with them doing the shame attacking exercises but ask yourself will this be a positive experience for this patient because sometimes it may be not the thing to do with certain patients. Maybe if they have you know poor interpersonal skills or that type of thing. And then consider the context. I wouldn't do that. My office was at the time in the hospital and I would not do shame attacking exercises in a hospital or a church for example. And then in addition you have to consider the impact. It should not be aggressive or make other people uncomfortable or afraid. It instead you should be poking fun at yourself and not at other people. And now we can give another slide.

 

Jill Levitt: And I will just say one quick thing. We are going to give someone an opportunity to do a little shame attacking. But just to be clear you know so again the goal here is to reduce shame by being willing to do something that might draw attention to you and might be kind of goofy or silly. Never to offend other people. Never to hurt other people. Not to intentionally make other people uncomfortable. Although some things we do might be a little awkward and silly. And just to also kind of prime the pump for you all you know there's a whole range of things you can do for shame attacking. So I love David's story and I am sure that made a lot of people feel cringy imagining that happening. And we've had a lot of people repeat that same kind of practice of the asking people to taste something. But even things like I have walked. I had patients just buy like a little birthday hat and walk around town wearing a birthday hat or you know a tiara or a patient and I went to like kind of a nice restaurant and outside the restaurant we just got down and did like some push-ups and sit-ups and jumping jacks or we will stand on a street corner and sing a song. So just all sorts of things you can do to kind of draw attention to yourself. And the goal being essentially to not take yourself too seriously right and to kind of have fun with it. And it always we always have a lot of anticipatory anxiety doing these things and then end up feeling a huge sense of kind of like exhilaration after doing it. We just had people in our training group practice this past week actually and then had them all kind of report back and tell us the exercises that they're doing themselves and also the exercises they're doing with their patients. So, Mike we have a volunteer who said she's terribly anxious to do this but wanted to do shame attacking with us today. Will you help us connect with her. Katie? So, Mike I am sure you are working on unmuting Katie and showing us. We can see you now Katie. Will you unmute? Yeah there you go.

 

Dr. David Burns: Oh, hi Katie.

 

Jill Levitt: You were unmuted then you just muted again. Try that one more time. You were probably doing it the same time as Mike. Okay good. Hi Katie.

 

Dr. David Burns: Can you hear us Katie?

 

Jill Levitt: Oh wait. She looks like she's now connecting to audio or something.

 

Mike: It looks like just her microphone is connecting. I don't think this is part of the shame attacking but it's a good launch point there. Her microphone's not connected. Looks like.

 

Jill Levitt: Try that. But now she's muted again. Like her microphone was connected and then she.

 

Dr. David Burns: Well we might have to pass on it because the time is tight. We can give a few examples of kinds of shame attack.

 

Jill Levitt: Let me can I ask a question David since we can all see her but we can't hear her? Can we I am just gonna put Katie on the spot and say can you belt out a song for us that we won't be able to hear but we will be able to see your animated fashion and it'll be even goofier and more ridiculous? Okay. See she can hear us. We just can't hear her. So go for it. Get give us your all. You might have to do more dancing than singing. Let's see it. All right. I think that's the best we can get from Katie our volunteer. So we will say bravo. Good show that you put on for us.

 

Dr. David Burns: Thank you for doing that. And on some of my Sunday hikes we've done a lot of shame attacking exercises and we will often stop and a stranger who's hiking in the opposite direction and then say "So and so in our group here wants to compete and you know America's Got Talent that singing thing for television and she'd like to sing a selection for you and have you give her a grade and evaluate her talent". And this is someone who's not a singer and it's pretty you know pretty ridiculous. Or you can stand in front of a Starbucks and ask a stranger you know "I am trying to find the Starbucks." "Could you direct me to it"? Or you can go into a Starbucks and sing your order rather than say your order or go in and do jumping jacks or dance around. There is a lot of things. I think in one of my podcasts I have a list of 50 potential shame attacking exercises.

 

Jill Levitt: Yep. Okay. Well let's keep going because we still have a bit more to do here. We covered that. Yeah. So the last method we are going to teach you guys is the feared fantasy but we are going to teach it demo it show you a video and then we still need time for Q&A and wrap up,. So I think we are right on schedule here. The feared fantasy exercise is also in line with many of the other exercises. The goal here is to work on a fear of judgment, right that so many people who struggle with social anxiety are terribly worried about people judging them looking down on them etc. So for the feared fantasy this is a roleplaying method that you are going to do with your patient in the office. So I am not going to send them outside the office. And you are going to tell your patient that in the feared fantasy method we are going to enter a sort of Alice in Wonderland nightmare world where your worst fears come true. What you are most afraid of in this social anxiety situation is actually going to happen, you are going to face the thing that you fear the most this judgment from others. And the goal is that you are going to discover right that even if this terrible thing you are so worried about happened it wouldn't be that awful. That the monster has no teeth. So we have to start by asking the patient what they're afraid others might be thinking but not saying about them. So this kind of fear of judgment or that others would be looking down on them or whatever their worry is that others would be thinking about them. Then you are going to tell the patient "Okay so now let's imagine your patient is worried that they're giving a presentation and that others will judge them and think that they did a terrible job." Then they're going to enter the workshop from hell or the classroom from hell whatever the situation from hell. And there are two rules for the feared fantasy. One rule is if you are worried that people are looking down on you they really are in this scenario. And not only are they looking down on you internally and kind of having negative thoughts about you but they're not going to be polite. They're going to get right up in your face and they're going to tell you exactly what they think of you. And the feared fantasy the therapist is most frequently going to start out in the role of kind of the critical other right the person saying, "I judge you or I look down on you or you did a terrible job presenting today". Okay. And the patient is going to play the role of themsself and try to sort of defeat the monster. After each exchange which you will see David and I demonstrate you will watch it on a video too. We are going to ask the patient who won. Was it me or you? Was it big or small big or huge? We do this with a lot of our role playing methods so we can figure out is the patient getting what they need to get here? Often times we need to do a lot of role reversal. So we can actually have the patient be the critical other and we the therapist can model you know an effective response. David do you want to say anything more about it or do you want to do the demo?

 

Dr. David Burns: We can do the demo and then get into the video.

 

Jill Levitt: Okay. Do you want to should I share my negative thoughts here on this slide and then you want to be the judger?

 

Dr. David Burns: Sure. We can do it that way. No problem.

 

Jill Levitt: Okay. So we are gonna take this example that David and I are doing a webinar together right? And I am worried that I will make a fool of myself that I will you know be inarticulate and that people will judge me. That I am thinking everyone else is better at public speaking than I am. That people will reject me and ultimately that my reputation will be ruined. And so David is going to play the role of let's say the therapist being the critical other right the webinar goer from hell. And I am going to play the role of myself right and I am going to try to model an effective response.

 

Dr. David Burns: And this is not assertiveness training because rarely would people be as harsh as what I am going to do here. But this is actually me being Jill's feared fantasy that she gave this talk and one or more people actually did have thoughts that you know that Jill made a fool of herself and so forth. So I am going to be not David but the audience member from hell who represents Jill's worst fear come to life. And this will give Jill the opportunity to find out if that monster has teeth. And there's two strategies Jill can use. Cognitive strategies or interpersonal strategies in confronting the monster. But let's see what happens because a picture is worth a thousand words.

 

Jill Levitt: Yeah. And I will just say too I will do my best to do a good powerful response and then you will see in the video that we will show you kind of a therapist struggling and then or the you person in the patient role struggling and then actually coming up with a better response. But we can also do a role reversal if you want David. Yeah.

 

Dr. David Burns: Okay. So I am the audience member from hell. And this is after the workshop. Could I talk to you for a minute Jill?

 

Jill Levitt: Yeah.

 

Dr. David Burns: I know you did that workshop with David and you had these negative thoughts during the workshop that you were going to not do a good job and make a fool of yourself. Do you remember that?

 

Jill Levitt: Yeah for sure.

 

Dr. David Burns: And you were concerned that people would judge you and stuff and you ask people and they though you were like in a bathtub of love. Everyone gave you all this reassurance and we love you and you did a great job and when you goof up it doesn't make any difference we love you more. But there was quite a number of us me in particular who actually thought that you did make a fool of yourself. And I just wanted to tell you that's what I think.

 

Jill Levitt: Wow. That's hard coming from you because I really look up to you David and I admire you and I think you are such an incredible presenter. But I am sure there are many ways that I could improve and I would love to get some feedback from you. I am guessing if you guys thought I really bombed it that you've got like maybe many points I could improve on. Would you be willing to share with me because I sure would love to learn from you.

 

Dr. David Burns: Well the main thing I want to share with you is that I judge you and that I am with a group and we are all much better at public speaking and we not only do we judge you we reject you.

 

Jill Levitt: Can you can you tell me more? I mean just yeah let me know what it is that I that I did that you know was worth judging. What tell can you give me some specific pointers on how I could have done a better job?

 

Dr. David Burns: No, we are too advanced. We don't mess around with people as much you know awkward beginners like you. But we are going to spread the word and your reputation will soon be ruined.

 

Jill Levitt: Wow, It sounds like you are very invested in ruining my reputation. What's that about? I was so figured you'd just kind of maybe at my mediocre presentation and move along. What's that all about? You and your friends are just amazing presenters who like to tear down other people.

 

Dr. David Burns: And so then now the question would be who won? Would you say Jill?

 

Jill Levitt: Yeah. I felt that I was winning.

 

Dr. David Burns: Big or small?

 

Jill Levitt: I thought that was big.

 

Dr. David Burns: Big or huge?

 

Jill Levitt: I thought it was huge.

 

Dr. David Burns: Yeah. I thought it was huge too.

 

Jill Levitt: Seemed to reveal the ridiculousness of what you were saying and the meanspiritedness and you know that it seemed kind of over the top.

 

Dr. David Burns: That’s right. And the idea isn't that no one would say these things but that if somebody were to think these things or to say these things that they would be the one making a fool of themselves and not Jill. And now let's get on to our video to bring this to life. Years ago I had the chance to do some actual TEAM-CBT sessions in our living room with two professional cameramen from commercial television camera people who came for the day and you know set up the lights and everything to so we could get beautiful high quality video and audio of a number of sessions. And in one of them we worked with Christine, was a lovely woman from the Sacramento area who had been struggling all of her life with severe social anxiety. And her feared fantasy was to imagine that she was on a date with some cool guy who then tries to talk about some serious topic and she would not be intelligent enough or know how to carry her weight. To her that was just like the most horrible thing she could imagine. And so I am working with my former student and now dear friend and colleague Dr Matthew May and we were doing some co-therapy. And in this video segment we are going to bring Christine's worst fear to life and she's dating Matt and then suddenly during the date Matt turns into the monster she fears the most. Let's see what happens.

 

Dr. David Burns: Are you afraid of the critic the person who's going to reject you when they see you as you really are? Are you afraid of that person?

 

Dr. David Burns: The sound quality is not good on my end Jill.

 

Jill Levitt: Are you able to hear it but just not that well?

 

Dr. David Burns: I turned the microphone up. Let start it again and see.

 

Jill Levitt: Let me just hold on one second. Let me just do one thing. Okay let me try again. Okay.

 

Dr. David Burns: Okay sure.

 

Jill Levitt: This is my shame attacking exercise.

 

Dr. David Burns: Okay great.

 

Jill Levitt: Hopefully this will work much better. Ready? I think this is good.

 

Dr. David Burns: Are you afraid of the critic the person who's going to reject you when they see you as you really are? Are you afraid of that person?

 

Christine: I am afraid of the loneliness as a result of that.

 

Dr. David Burns: But you are not afraid of the rejection?

 

Christine: I am afraid of like how I was respond to the rejection.

 

Dr. David Burns: Would you like to find out? There's a technique called the feared fantasy. And when you go into the feared fantasy you go into an Alice and Wonderland nightmare world where your worst fear comes true. And in this nightmare world there's two rules. And one rule is that if you think that people are going to reject you and look down on you they really are. And they also verbalize to you, the things that you think people would be thinking but would never say to you. Okay. And let's imagine that you are having a date with Matt and you are going from this funny fun stage and you are suddenly beginning to feel kind of self-conscious and anxious and you disclose that to him rather than hiding it as you usually do. And then he turns into a horrible critic. And we can see if we need to be afraid of that person. And actually you can be Christine or Matt. You can have either role. Which role would you like? You want to be the critic, the hostile critic or you want to be Christine?

 

Christine: Um well I think I'd start with Christine because I have an idea of what like of where it would start to go foul. Like say for instance if you brought up a topic that I did not really know that much about or you know something and. I guess what I am thinking that you know I would say if I if the fear would be what would happen if I said you know I don't really know you know I can't really contribute to.

 

Dr. David Burns: You have to do more than that. You'd have to say "I can't I don't really I can't contribute to this conversation. I don't much about it. I am feeling kind of self-conscious." Right? That's what you'd have to say. Okay. Isn't that right? Yeah.

 

Christine: Yeah.

 

Dr. David Burns: That would be the real thing to say.

 

Christine: Right.

 

Dr. David Burns: I am feeling kind of tongue tied and I can't think.

 

Christine: Right. I am feeling like because I am not contributing that much to this conversation that you are judging me to be you know like incredibly boring and this is a chore.

 

Dr. David Burns: That's good enough. That gives us an idea. And just to make it give him something to hang his hat on what is the conversation about like politics or? Okay space travel or whatever. Okay. All right. Go ahead.

 

Matt: Okay Christina. I have really enjoyed getting to know you and laughing with you. It's been so much fun. And as you know that's not all there is. And I just wanted to see. I have got a couple of interests. Maybe we could just talk about. For example in Central and South America there were tribes the Inca the Maya the Aztec. And I am wondering what you think their different geology how that contributed to the development of their civilizations.

 

Christine: Well I mean I know enough to know that you know they created incredibly hard working people with you know the building of the pyramids.

 

Matt: And this is kind of boring to me what you are saying right now.

 

Christine: Well you know I don't really know that much about. I don't remember. I you know I skipped schools a lot and missed out on big chunks of those big classes. So you know I had to make up for lost time and you know these are some of the blanks.

 

Matt: So this is kind of a chore talking to you. you are kind of good for like a laugh but.

 

Christine: Well I mean I appreciate your honesty.

 

Matt: I am very honest. It's one of my many awesome qualities. I am kind of like one of the upper echelon types.

 

Christine: Yeah you know. As I am thinking I am not really feeling like I am the negative the worst one in this conversation. I don't like you.

 

Dr. David Burns: Right. Exactly. Let me show you a slightly different style. But that's isn't that illuminating? That's what you are afraid of right?

 

Christine: Right.

 

Dr. David Burns: And why are we no longer afraid of that? Because because it's like.

 

Christine: Oh why would I want? why would I choose that?

 

Dr. David Burns: Exactly. But I will we can take it even further. Let me play your role in that and go ahead. So you are really into the Incas and stuff like that.

 

Matt: Yes that's one of my main interests.

 

Dr. David Burns: And I am You spend a lot of hours you know in the week studying the Incas and so forth.

 

Matt: It's important to me that we be able to connect on that level.

 

Dr. David Burns: You know I don't know a damn thing about the Incas. And furthermore, my mind goes blank when you ask me about them because I just don't. I don't know shit about them.

 

Matt: Well, then this is just this is just a boring chore of a conversation for me. I don't know why I am even here.

 

Dr. David Burns: Yeah. I may not be the woman for you. You may be looking for more of an Inca lover. If you give me your card you know I if I am meeting some really cool looking women who are intrigued by the Incas I could have hand them your card.

 

Matt: You are not even worth my time.

 

Dr. David Burns: No. Oh, no. Absolutely. You need a more of an Inca. Is this helpful?

 

Christine: That's beautiful. And what about it? What do you like about that? I just really just appreciated just kind of like acknowledging you know like the absurdity of it.

 

Dr. David Burns: Why is it absurd? What is going to go?

 

Jill Levitt: Sorry. Okay. I tried to pause it there. So yeah so we were going to end actually on that note. Do you want to make any final comments about that video David? It's one of my very favorite videos that we ever show because it's so obvious the flip that switches in Christine's brain where she realizes right that she's not the one with the problem.

 

Dr. David Burns: Yeah absolutely. I think the idea behind feared fantasy is that we often run away from what we fear the most. We avoid it and that makes it mushroom and get worse. And the feared fantasy is a way of confronting fears that you can't confront in actual reality because they're not going to happen in actual reality and just the way you are afraid. But if you act it out like this you can get suddenly see that the thing that you've been afraid of is not worth being afraid of. And it's a kind of liberation from your fears.

 

Jill Levitt: Yeah. And so we are going to share with you guys a couple of opportunities to learn more and then in about five minutes Mike is going to put the link to the CE survey in the chat box for the therapists who need their CES and David and I will take just a few questions at the very end of the webinar. If you know if today's training with us sparked something for you if you like these methods and you are really interested in learning more and taking your skills deeper as a therapist we would love to invite you to join our FastTrack to level three certification course. It's our most efficient and powerful way to help therapists to really master the TEAM-CBT skills. David and I shared with you today just a handful of the interpersonal exposure methods. And as you can see on this slide in the FastTrack course we teach lots and lots more. The FastTrack course begins in January the next iteration of it. We have kind of cohorts that do it. And so if you sign up today there's a $50 off coupon code that's called SkillUp50. And you can sign up at fasttrackcbt.com. And Mike is also going to put that information in the chat box. This slide has a lot on it. I am going to briefly just tell you kind of what all is involved in the FastTrack course. And then I will let David share a little with you about the Feeling Great app too. So the course is a hybrid format designed for busy therapists where you only need to commit one to two hours a week and you get 16 hours of ondemand content that you can complete at your own pace me teaching different skills David and I doing interviews and telling stories. That's kind of in the asynchronous part the home study part. And then you get 25 weeks of small group coaching and live practice that's led by expert TEAM-CBT therapists. And this is how you develop mastery through feedback practice real skills in action. 46 CE credits. It also includes David's toolkit which is normally $199. It includes all certification and exam fees. Also we are feeling so confident that you will love the course that there's a 30-day money back guarantee. So if within the first month of the course you are not super happy and satisfied you can always get your money back. And then today we have this $50 off coupon code. We are so often getting really kind of warm and heartwarming feedback. And so I just wanted to share a couple of the things I have heard. And I will just say that my experience in talking to therapists is that it is both really helpful for therapists in boosting their confidence and feeling good about themselves as therapists and then also helpful to therapists in learning practical skills that help their patients. So I hope that some of you will choose to join us.

 

Dr. David Burns: Well the feeling great app is I think quite a breakthrough. It's you the current version uses highly structured AI to take you through the same kinds of things we would be doing if I were treating you in an actual therapy session. And it has beautiful empathy but it has we've taught it the whole TEAM-CBT process and it's pretty remarkable. The effects in changing reducing negative feelings and boosting positive feelings are pretty profound. I want to emphasize that this is not a competition for therapy. This is not therapy. It's just a perhaps the most by far the most powerful self-help tool ever developed. And if you'd like to use it you can now get a year's subscription for free instead of paying the $99 and check it out. It can be very helpful for you if you are a patient off course because you can change the way you think and feel without a lot of cost any cost for that matter. But it's also great for therapists to brush up on your skills. And also you can have your patients do it for homework and you will drastically or dramatically speed up their recovery. So check out the Feeling Great app if you or a loved one or a patient needs a little boost. You might be pleasantly surprised by how powerful and compassionate this tool is.

 

Jill Levitt: And just so that you all know Mike just put the CE survey in the chat box. Make sure you see that one. It says CE credits survey. And then he also added a survey for the general public just to get a little feedback from you. But if you are a therapist make sure you click on the CE credits survey. And maybe we will drop. Mike just dropped that one in again. So in the meantime we are going to take some. These are these are sorry on this slide is just some free training groups. David and I teach a training group on Tuesday nights. The Tuesday group we call it. You can join us there. Rhonda and Cai Wednesday group. Those are groups that do require weekly attendance are not drop in groups. David has an amazing YouTube channel with really fun and entertaining videos as well as the feeling good podcast. So those are all things you can do to continue your training that cost you nothing. And Mike you were going to share with us some questions.

 

Q&A Session